Christina McKelvy: 0:13

Welcome to Apology Stories of Hope, healing and Resilience. I'm your host, christina McKelvie. Today we speak with Sonia. She's the founder of Everbloom, an online platform that helps provide support with alcohol recovery through community. We explore her own personal story about recovery and how she saw the need for that increased community support, which led her to create Everbloom. Please join us as we delve into this interesting topic about sobriety and what that means. We'll be right back MUSIC. Welcome to Apology Stories of Hope, healing and Resilience. I'm your host, christina McKelvie. Today we're going to be speaking to Sonia from Everbloom. How are you doing, sonia?

Sonia: 1:16

I'm really good, Christina. How are you today?

Christina McKelvy: 1:19

I'm doing well, thank you. It's a little warm, it is the summer and at least where I'm from it's really warm.

Sonia: 1:28

Yeah, it's beautiful here. I'm in Pennsylvania OK.

Christina McKelvy: 1:32

OK, pennsylvania yeah, I've been having this weird. I don't know if it's weird, but I have been having this fascination with wanting to visit the East Coast, like Vermont, rhode Island, you know, kid Cod, and I've been getting Instagram ads because I think Instagram reach your mind.

Sonia: 1:52

Yeah, that was reach your mind.

Christina McKelvy: 1:55

So just tons of ads about the East Coast, so I'll have to make it out there. The furthest seats I've been was Maryland, and it was lovely. You know it was in Chescapique Bay, I think that's how you say it. Yeah, chescapique, yeah, yeah, and Blue Water Crab, it was great. So it's the furthest east I've ever been have to do an East Coast.

Sonia: 2:14

A fall East Coast trip is amazing.

Christina McKelvy: 2:18

Yes, ok, well, I'm writing that down and I will travel out to the East Coast one of these falls, or more recent, because this summer here where I'm at on the West Coast is torturous. So, sonia, tell me a little bit about yourself, or tell our audiences a little bit about yourself and your platform, everbloom.

Sonia: 2:38

Yeah, so I'm Sonia and I've been in recovery for six years and originally I was an orthodontist and I built a really big practice and the whole time I was building it I was just drinking more and more to deal with the stress. And when I sold the business I got sober and I was doing really well. But it wasn't really out and proud with my sobriety and most of the reason why I think my husband at the time wasn't super comfortable with that idea that his wife was like an addict, right and so, and thought it sort of like, you know, had this stigma. If I said I'm sober and so a lot of times I would notice like he would jump in and tell people, oh, she doesn't drink and wouldn't. I didn't really get into the sober thing, but he went on Expand on that.

Sonia: 3:28

Yeah, I wouldn't expand on it. And then you know, like you just know instinctively not to. You know what I mean, what you're like. Okay, I'm not going to expand on it either, because I think there was a reason, you know does it that way? And so, yeah, then I started to kind of get more into it. I started writing a little bit about my sobriety, I started making images and they got into galleries and the writing was getting published and I think the more that happened, probably the more uncomfortable he became, and for 18 years he got up and left like without any warning, I'm sorry I know it was devastating, and so when that happened I thought there's absolutely no way I'm going to stay sober and there's no reason, because my life has been like blown to pieces.

Sonia: 4:17

So I, you know, the first few weeks were just so tough and I really didn't know if I was going to make it without drinking, and I really did just go back to the one day at a time, which I hadn't done in five years.

Sonia: 4:31

And while I was doing that I thought, you know, I really need a sober community. Like I need support from people that have gone through like not necessarily the exact same thing, but something similar, like a really tough situation, and have to kind of maintain their sobriety. And also I'm pretty introverted and I didn't want to talk in a big group with people I didn't know. So I was like is there any way that there's like a consistent group that I would see like every week the same people, so I didn't have to go through my like sob story every time, like I was sober five years and then my husband left and then you know, and so nice of people knew that.

Sonia: 5:08

And so kind of like friends right, like my friends, I didn't have to go into it, you know, each time and I looked and I really couldn't find it. And so I thought, if I'm going through this right and I was so lucky, I had like five years of sobriety, I had a super strong support system with my family, I was financially stable I cannot imagine if any of those things weren't there, how much more difficult this would be. And it's got to be something that other people are looking for. And so, yeah, I kind of did a lot of research and was like I really don't need to start another business, but let me check out and see if it's out there. And it wasn't. And so I just slowly started interviewing people in recovery, really trying to solidify the fact that it wasn't out there. It wasn't. And so I made it.

Christina McKelvy: 6:02

You saw a need and you stepped in to meet that need. It sounds like the lack of support and community for those that are continuing on with sobriety, because it's a little different with your friends.

Sonia: 6:18

Like you mentioned, you had friends, but they might have not understood your journey and yeah, I didn't want to worry people, I didn't want to worry my family and friends by saying, thinking I'd go pick up a bottle of alcohol. They were being so different in every other way that I just and they'd been through the addiction and I didn't want to. It just seemed unfair in a sense to bring it up and be like hey, now you have to babysit me, so I don't drink. So, yeah, it's different when you have friends that they my family doesn't drink a lot but they're not sober and I think it takes a sober person to understand that specific struggle.

Christina McKelvy: 7:02

Yeah, that's actually a really good point that it's hard to connect with or understand, have empathy or insight into someone's struggle if you have not been there yourself.

Sonia: 7:15

Yeah, because that is my heaviest coping mechanism. Things are as bad as they can get. I didn't have the coping mechanisms for something that enormous and that's hard for people to understand who don't automatically default to drugs and alcohol. They're like now, why don't you do some deep breathing and it's like no, no, it's not going to work.

Christina McKelvy: 7:43

It's not going to work this time it's more than just deep breathing, it's like a really rooted thing that probably stems from many different variables and reasons. I'm curious how does Everbloom, the community that you created, differ from other recovery networks such as AA?

Sonia: 8:03

Yeah, so I think one is that there are really it's not a program, right, it's just groups of people giving each other support, and I think the biggest thing that's different is, like AA, for example, one of their main rules is no crosstalk, and so to me, that's no feedback, no conversation, and that's really what I needed, and I think it's sort of a different, almost more modern approach. Right, this is what we do now. We communicate and we are freed with our emotions and we're vulnerable. And I think that's really what I was struggling with was I need someone to talk to, I need to have a conversation back and forth.

Sonia: 8:44

And when someone says you're going to be OK, I'll be like well, when? When am I going to be OK? And when they say three to six months, and I'm like, really, are you sure you want to be able to kind of ask the questions, and so that's different. And then also, almost every other platform is a drop-in model, and so you are just dropping into a meeting. You don't know who is going to be there, you don't know what their story is, and what I really wanted was to match people and have them create real connections, like real friendships.

Christina McKelvy: 9:22

I was not aware of the drop-in model. I mean I was aware of it but it didn't. It makes sense Like it's kind of an aha moment for me, is where AA is a drop-in model, so not knowing who's going to be there, for some individuals that could mean a lack of sense of safety.

Sonia: 9:42

For sure, right, Especially depending on where you live in the country. Aa is so different Like it can be one way in New York City and another way in Arizona you just don't know what you're getting into. And then it's like, well, if you don't find what you're looking for, what do you do? Mm-hmm.

Christina McKelvy: 10:01

Mm-hmm, you don't find what you're looking for. What do you do? You do what you did.

Sonia: 10:08

Yeah, that's one idea. Yeah, or if you have, for example, like but there are people that live in areas where for me it's not feasible necessarily to create a sober network in rural Pennsylvania of like 10, 15 other women. That's not going to happen, and so it's really for people that just want that connection Mm-hmm.

Christina McKelvy: 10:33

You know, you bring up a good point with. You know, in a rural community you may not find in person 10 women who have similar stories, similar backgrounds. I live in a relatively rural area of Arizona and it's the same thing I hear a lot from my clients. There's not anyone that understands. So then you go onto social media or the internet and you find like-minded communities and I think that's one of the positives of social media is that being able to connect with others from around the world, whereas before you weren't able to necessarily do that.

Sonia: 11:09

Yeah, and I'm not like necessarily old school, but I do think there's like limitations to like a Facebook group right Right. Like the conversation, like we're having now, but I love it Like the Slack channel at Everbloom and when people are spring they will jump on and like, ask for advice, and but again it's like from people they know right. It's not like you know random person jumping in being like, hey, why don't you just try having three glasses of wine tonight? It's like what? No, no, I'm not going to try that.

Christina McKelvy: 11:40

So how was Everbloom set up? You mentioned you have a Slack channel Like what does when someone joins Everbloom? What does that look like?

Sonia: 11:48

Yeah, so when they join, their options are they can have like a five minute kind of chat with me so I get an idea of what they're looking for, or also they can fill out a pretty, like you know, in depth questionnaire about what they're looking for, and then we'll match them into a group that we think fits their needs the best and haven't had a miss yet. And so, yeah, the groups are very cohesive, not necessarily demographically like they're all ages and races, but they're struggling with something very similar. So, you know, a lot of them are like in the first six months of sobriety, and that's a really unique experience. We have a group of people that are healthcare workers. That's a really unique experience, and so, whatever it is that you're struggling with, that's kind of causing you to like either reexamine your relationship with alcohol, get sober and stay sober, whatever that is.

Christina McKelvy: 12:44

And how has every bloom changed you specifically? You know as a founder, but also you know I'm assuming you're very engaged in the groups itself.

Sonia: 12:55

I mean, I think I don't know if you feel like this, because with the podcast, but it's like I well no, you're a therapist, you do I never found what I was like meant to do, like I never felt connected, being an orthodontist, and I maybe, at some level, knew I was missing some passion, but not really Like. I just was like, oh well, this is what I went to school to do and this is what I'm going to do, and so I think it like fulfills something in me that I didn't even know was missing to like a great extent. And so you know it's, it's changed like in every way, like there's no, there's no like end to the day, right, if someone's having trouble or someone sends me an email, like I'm responding, it doesn't matter, you know what time it is, and and so, yeah, things like that. I think it's different, that it's more like a, like a passion project, in a sense, than a like nine to five kind of job, if that makes sense.

Sonia: 13:49

Yeah, and there's that like and I don't think I felt this way about teeth, which is no, no, not teeth, no, but it's like if I could help one person, that's, that's enough. Like it, that is the goal is to help one person figure out what the problem is with alcohol, if you know if they can drink, if they can't drink, if they want to get sober, and so, yeah, I think it's just has a different weight. A different weight, yeah, that's what it feels like. It feels like every person that comes through is like, or is in a meeting, is like a friend of mine, like we're all part of the same tribe is probably not the greatest word to use but just we're part of the same community, like we understand each other in a different way.

Christina McKelvy: 14:41

Unity is such an important concept that I feel and I've said this in every single podcast in the last five interviews that I've done so weird, but it's such an important concept that I think we have forgotten here in Western society, especially in the US.

Sonia: 14:59

For sure. That's really interesting. I was like talking to a friend of mine and I recently started going to my families in Toronto and I started spending a lot more time there and she said, like that's what society was about. It was about like being with your people and the people that understand you and support you the most and somehow we just kind of got away from that when we started like moving for work and moving for school, and so we didn't work, considering that aspect of it.

Christina McKelvy: 15:30

Yeah, yeah. The whole go out West, young man, by yourself, you know, was sowing grains in American society, and I don't know if there's necessarily nothing wrong with having that independence, but you still lose something when you're solo.

Sonia: 15:48

For sure, like I've moved so many times for school or for jobs and you leave people behind Like you're not taking the whole group with you. You know you're kind of in some friendships. Don't make it through that.

Christina McKelvy: 16:03

Yeah, it goes back to the online platform, so you have individuals from all over the country or the world like we're All over the country right now.

Sonia: 16:14

We have some people in Canada. But yeah, we're open, like, if people can make it to a meeting, you're welcome to come to a meetings, so yeah.

Christina McKelvy: 16:23

I love how technology can be beneficial. Like I, have such a love hate relationship, but this is just, I think, a testament of how it can be helpful, you know, expanding that community around the US and eventually the globe.

Sonia: 16:38

Yeah, cause there's something to like, especially with sobriety, like there's something to consistency, and so if I want to take a trip for three weeks, I don't want to be away from my sober community for three weeks and especially, honestly, vacations are a little tough when you're sober you know like, especially when you're first sober and everyone's, like you know, getting wasted.

Christina McKelvy: 16:59

And so.

Sonia: 16:59

So it's kind of nice, Like you can kind of take us with you wherever you go. If you feel like you know what I'm going to travel for like a month, it's like, well, you still have your sober community.

Christina McKelvy: 17:09

Mm-hmm, you can take them with you or in your pocket, cause it's an app, right, or is it?

Sonia: 17:14

It's not an app, it's just online and so you can like click on from your phone and click onto a zoom and you're there. And it's like and we have people that will come on from like the strangest places, like they like had to go to Walmart and they're like I'm at Walmart, got the phone and I'm going to have it, or like they're in their car or on their way home from somewhere. So it's like, and it's nice too, cause it doesn't feel like. I feel like now, right, we're also concerned about something interfering like with the day. It's like they don't have to get dressed up, they don't have to get in the car and go somewhere.

Christina McKelvy: 17:47

Yeah, Mm-hmm, I'm curious what is your perspective, being someone that has been in recovery for six years and you know you're. I know there's a lot of nuances, every individual is different, but what would you say you feel might be one of the biggest causes of not being sober? You know, alcohol use, substance use yeah.

Sonia: 18:12

Yeah, I'm sure you have like the actual science behind it, but I think for me like what it felt like what it feels like, and that's what matters for you. Yeah, it feels like, and it see there was a genetic component.

Sonia: 18:26

And at some point that, whatever that is got triggered in me, and it was probably from trauma. Like there was some traumatic experiences when I was younger that just kind of clicked in there and thought and I thought, oh, I have this unbelievable anxiety. It's like a soul encompassing anxiety, and when you're young and you have your first drink and it takes that away, it's like why look any further? Right, like I found it. I don't need to go try yoga, I don't need, I found what works for me and I think that's it. And I also think it depends to how normalized alcohol is in your family, your society, and so for me, alcohol was really normal to have around the house, and so the idea of having a problem was like not really a concept to me, like it didn't occur to me that you could drink too much like it or that that would be a problem or that you could be addicted to alcohol.

Christina McKelvy: 19:30

What was your aha moment with that when you're like, oh, I might have a problem?

Sonia: 19:36

Yeah, it was kind of confusing because I was so high, functioning right, like it was literally like in response to how well I was functioning the more I drank, and so it was really tough to admit that there was a problem and then to admit that like I had to let go of this like only coping mechanism, and I had seen super low functioning alcoholics my whole life and I thought, well, that guy, like I'm not that guy, but I am that guy, I am Like that is the same thought process, the same physical process that goes through my body. It's the same thing, like I need a drink. And so, yeah, I think the aha moment was like just like one hangover too many type thing. Like I think it was like I had known probably for about a year or two that there was a problem, right, like I knew I didn't feel good physically, I knew that I was saying things that I regretted the next day, I knew I was blacking out more frequently at night, and so I think that I think it was just like one really bad hangover where I had blacked out, I had said something probably crazy, I had like a bruise on my leg and I was so sick that I just was like this can't be what life is, because the only way. Also, I was in a cycle where if I was that hungover on like a Sunday, I would drink like brunch, right, and feel better. And I knew I just saw it like.

Sonia: 21:17

I saw it like the next few weeks like flash in front of me and I thought, if I get rid of this hangover by drinking at brunch, I can't stop drinking today, like I'll have to keep drinking until I go to bed and then the hangover I have tomorrow is gonna be worse than this one and I have to go to work and then I'm barely gonna make it through the day just like praying. I can go home and start drinking and it just felt like what am I doing? Like what is my life Like? What is it? What am I doing? I have no hobbies I have. You know I wasn't super close to my family. All I was sort of concerned was was like being successful at work and then coming home and drinking. Being successful and coming home, and so it just wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't working for me.

Christina McKelvy: 22:06

It's the more successful you got, the more you drank.

Sonia: 22:10

Yeah, I mean I think that I was pretty good at covering it up. But I think most people who can kind of contain their drinking to like the hours between like seven and 10 pm are pretty good at covering it up during the day. But yeah, I think that that's probably when you start to realize that there's a problem, is when you're kind of faced with some stress that's like beyond, so that the work stress was like really testing my limits. And so then it was like testing my limits of how much I could drink.

Christina McKelvy: 22:49

I'm curious what tends to be common barriers that you've seen, either for yourself or in general, in regards to trying to maintain sobriety or get to the first steps of sobriety.

Sonia: 23:03

Yeah, for sure, it's a stigma thing, and so.

Sonia: 23:06

Not shame, For sure, it's a shame thing and it's. We talk about it a lot in the groups and I think that also a lot is the like, you know I People think the only option is to go to AA. And when you go to AA, you have to like admit you're powerless against alcohol. And I don't think, as women, we feel like doing that right now, Like at this in 2023, like I don't think we feel like saying I'm powerless against something and, you know, really have to commit to abstinence for the rest of your life. And there's a shame factor if you know you have a slip up and so I'm abstinent, that's my choice, but not everyone has that as a goal and they feel uncomfortable.

Sonia: 23:52

I think, talking about that and so that's kind of what we do is we give people a place to figure really, really truly figure out what you want your relationship with alcohol to be going forward. And you don't have to label yourself as an addict, you don't have to label yourself as an alcoholic. You just All you know is you want a better, you know relationship with alcohol. You want a different connection to it. You don't want to use it as a crutch.

Christina McKelvy: 24:19

You mentioned shame factor, the stigma, and even I'm sure they're in the community, not your community, but just in general saying, oh, I want to limit it to once a week, or this is how I want my relationship to be, as opposed to the traditional concept of abstinence. Aa preaches Sure, that's where it is. There can be stigma even just there, like you mentioned, like oh, or judgment. Maybe there's fear of judgment.

Sonia: 24:45

Yeah, and you really have to wholeheartedly sort of accept AA right, like you can't have in, have out, you can't be kind of in this, like you essentially like your life has like gone in a certain direction where you need intervention to get it out. And so a lot of the women in our groups are super high functioning and so they don't have the same consequences and so they can't sometimes relate to someone who's you know, on their like third or fourth DUI which is like totally, you know it is what it is. To me it's it's kind of all addiction, but I understand the relevance to sort of label.

Sonia: 25:28

You know yourself like that For some reason. To me it came easily. Once I got sober. It was like, very easy, I'm an addict, like, and now it's like. You know, a huge part of my identity is that you know recovery. But I understand that not not everyone wants to give it that place in their life. They just know they want to be healthier and happier.

Christina McKelvy: 25:51

And that relationship with alcohol and, like you said, it's shaped by maybe someone's traditions with their family, society. Learned coping, like I learned coping skills, genetics, like there's so many different nuances and variables to why someone may find themselves in a state of addiction.

Sonia: 26:10

Yeah, and there's a huge cultural component, right that like I think that is like a little underestimated that you don't have a ton of Asian people like myself in the groups Not something you admit. You don't admit any weakness, you know. And like certainly not to a substance, right, it's like, yeah, I think you know, when you hear the story of like you know, my dad was like I walked seven miles to school with no shoes. You don't have a drinking problem, just stop drinking. Like that's not a problem, just stop. And so I think there is a lot of like immigrant mentality where it's like, yeah, that's not a thing, like that's, come on, like you know, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and fix it.

Christina McKelvy: 26:57

I'm curious how it shaped you. You know just your like, so your culture and the decisions you had to make towards sobriety.

Sonia: 27:04

Yeah, I mean, I think there's this in my specific, you know, stance is that, because there were so many people drinking so heavily in my family, for them to say that acknowledge that I had a problem would be like we got to go back to, like these 50 guys, like you know, think about what's going on there and I think that they don't want to do that Like that's not and it's a huge part of celebration in the culture, and so I think that if you take that away, they wouldn't even know how to celebrate a wedding and they wouldn't know, you know, how to celebrate the birth of a boy child and, you know, I think there's those few kind of things specific to, like you know, indian culture and how I grew up. That, yeah, that really prevented me from, you know, wanting to admit there was a problem and then again, wanting to be open about it.

Christina McKelvy: 28:00

Yeah, I read a interview. So I, you know I do do some research on my guests and you know speaking of and this is a different direction of culture. But I read an interview where you talk about hustle culture and burnout culture and I'm curious how that can contribute to substance use or either personally for you or just in general what you've seen. It was a very interesting interview and also it's a very interesting thought of hustle culture, burnout culture and especially nowadays, you know, think, as women, we feel like we have to even prove ourselves a lot, which we shouldn't have to.

Sonia: 28:31

But yeah, I think there's just this idea of like you hustle until you burn out, like you are burning down right.

Sonia: 28:43

Like it's a sprint, it's not a marathon. And so I think you know, for me it became that, especially when there was that sort of like looming idea that I could sell the business, and so it was like, well, we have to get that to be bigger and bigger and bigger to be attractive enough to sell. And even if that hadn't been there, there was just this drive to like make it bigger and bigger and bigger, without kind of like growing but without really any idea why right Like that's just what you do.

Sonia: 29:15

You make it why you make more money you make. And so I think that for me it just got out of control, because I don't think I was equipped to handle that type of stress. And then also it was like perfectly acceptable for me to come home and have a drink when I was so hard.

Sonia: 29:37

No one was questioning it, right, like no one was like, oh, I think she drinks too much. I was just like, no, she's burning it up and she you know, she's trying to, you know needs a glass of wine after a hard day of work, and I think there's that too right, the work hard, play hard. And so, yeah, I think that's like, I think that's changing a little bit, but I think it's still part of our culture, like it's still part of like finance, the finance world. I think I think it's getting a little more relaxed in like the startup world, but it's, yeah, you just feel this like this is your one shot and so you have to hit it, and you have to hit it now. And so it's great, because I don't feel like that now about Everglue. I don't feel like that, like if I need to take a nap, I'm taking a nap because part of it is also I have to like practice what I preach, right, I'm telling people about self care and like self compassion, earning it up again it's like not helpful to anybody.

Christina McKelvy: 30:38

Yeah, if you're not taking care of yourself, you won't be able to take care of others. It's putting your own oxygen mask on first and I'm seeing this link. People that are very successful, high functioning, you know have to feel like they have to hustle and that might cause them to, you know, have unhealthy habits. But then there's that shame and stigma. Because I'm very successful, you know, very high functioning, I shouldn't be having what people call an issue or a problem, and so there's that shame, there's that stigma that gets reinforced and then you have eventually may burn out or have other consequences because of that. So I'm definitely seeing this and it almost feels like it's not talked about a lot. We tend to focus on, you know, one area and we don't focus on, like, another group where, no, they're struggling, they look like they're doing well, but they're struggling. That's the whole thing.

Sonia: 31:26

I think that's my goal right Is to stigmatize that and, honestly, it's part of our culture, our society is. I've posted on like TikTok, Like I was super successful, I started a business, I sold a business, I, you know, I scaled a business, all while I was an alcoholic. And people will respond that's not possible, that's not like you couldn't have been doing as well as you think, and I'm like, no, no, there's like literal evidence that I was doing well and I said this is the type of comment, right, that stops people from getting help. It stops, like a CEO of a company from admitting that they have a problem, because they know people are going to see them as well. If you have a problem, you haven't been doing your job properly and or you don't have a problem, You're just like making a big deal. It's like it's the same thing with mental health, right, Like to admit you have a problem really puts you in a vulnerable position, I think in your sort of like work life and I then I was so I was honestly surprised at the comments like that, Like every people would say everybody around you knew and it's like, oh, they did.

Sonia: 32:38

I'm telling you like I was like really, they're like people could probably smell it and I'm like I didn't drink at work, Like you know, it was just. Yeah, I was just I don't know why it caught me off guard, but I was like very quick to respond like hey, thank you so much for your input, but I think this is the type of sentiment that keeps people sick. It keeps us sick.

Christina McKelvy: 33:07

And it reinforces that shame.

Sonia: 33:09

Yeah, because then it's like I'm thinking oh well, am I well a right either, exaggerating how big my problem was or he was I a disaster at work or in other aspects of my life and am not acknowledging it type thing. And so I think there is yeah, there's a lot of shame there.

Christina McKelvy: 33:34

And it's a problem for you, for you, the person, the individual, and I think that's the measures, like you're measuring it against yourself.

Sonia: 33:41

If that makes any sense, yeah, I think people don't realize too when you're like you got to where you got for a reason and that's because I was really good at putting rules around myself. I never drove while I was drunk, right, I never drank before a certain time, like in the evening. I made sure like all my phone calls were done for work. I made sure I didn't send emails after I drank a certain amount, like there were. There was a whole set of rules in my head. I never drank at work events. I it was like and I think people don't realize that that's sort of that's what the high functioning is right Is hiding it.

Christina McKelvy: 34:22

And I'm curious how much of that need to have control over your own life may play into hiding it in a negative. Well, hiding it is negative, but I think some individuals that are high functioning need to have like this or maybe not, but need to have the sense of control, and so I can control this aspect, even though it's getting me out of control.

Sonia: 34:42

Yeah, and I think people like generally, I think a lot of people with addictions are kind of like perfectionists in this weird way, and so, yeah, not a lot in the groups that these are people that are like doing it all like their moms, they're in their like church fire, they're you know, they're doing parties for their kids friends, they're throwing engagement parties, they're throwing weddings, and it's like they're not. They're almost functioning too well, right and so, and that's it. They burn themselves out and then they drink, and so I think that, yeah, there is something to that for sure.

Christina McKelvy: 35:23

Interesting. What lessons would you want to provide? The lessons you learned throughout your six years of recovery and even now?

Sonia: 35:36

Oh, my biggest one is like and I, that's the thing is, I actually do love AA. I think there's so much with there and for sure, yeah, I play the tape forward multiple times a day, and not just with alcohol, I do it with like everything, with like food, with everything that you know has this tendency to get out of like control in any way. It's like I just play the tape forward like how, where does this lead? How will I feel if I do this? What is the point of doing this two days from now? And so, yeah, and I think that is what kept me sober, the you know, first six months after my divorce was play the tape forward, like if you, let's say, you go get a drink right now, let's be honest, you're going to come home tonight and, like, rattle off some fierce emails or texts.

Sonia: 36:28

Right, you're just going to be like lose it, and then you're going to feel terrible the next day and you're going to have to drink again, and then then you'll probably send some like a regretful text and then you're going to have to do this again. And so I think that, yeah, play the tape forward is my biggest, you know, advice. It's like something I do so much.

Christina McKelvy: 36:52

Play the tape forward so it's seeing what could be.

Sonia: 36:57

Yeah, even like, honestly, even like with like, I bake a lot, right, and it's like I have a piece of cake, right, I really want that second piece. I don't feel full, but I play the tape forward. You're going to eat that second piece of cake and be like why did I? What the why, why? Now I feel awful, like I can't move and so, yeah, there's a lot of that, it can help with all types of unhealthy habits and choices.

Sonia: 37:26

Not that I have started dating, but I imagine it would help if I let's play the tape forward on this guy. Like like let's take the information we have and where do we think this is going Well? Like let's be realistic, where is this going?

Christina McKelvy: 37:44

Yeah, yeah, where is this going? Hmm, I like that and I'm actually. I want to use that because I have a sweet tooth. You know, I always want that second piece, so hard.

Sonia: 37:58

Actually, interestingly, I have rules around it. I have dessert after lunch every day. I don't have a huge dessert, I do. I eat like a couple of pieces of chocolate after lunch and then I eat a pretty reasonable dessert after dinner. But it's like I think that lets me regulate it.

Christina McKelvy: 38:16

It gets yourself that permission. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Well, you know, I see, I love hearing your story and how you found yourself needing support and community, like minded individuals who knew where you came from, who you felt like you can be vulnerable with, and since you struggled finding that, you decided to create it yourself. You're like I'm going to fill this need, fill this gap, and you know you continue to. You know help through that, helping others and connecting everybody. Does it cost anything to join Everbloom?

Sonia: 38:53

Yes, so we have different sort of levels of membership and so you know, because it does take a lot of effort to kind of curate a group and then have a recovery, you know, facilitate it, and so, yeah, there's like you can do one meeting a week with your group, you can do two meetings a week. We also have one on one, coaching, and then everyone has access to the Slack channel once they sign up.

Christina McKelvy: 39:16

Okay, okay. Is there a minimum level of engagement that someone needs to have to be part of Everbloom, or can? What would that look like?

Sonia: 39:28

I think that I feel like the way Everbloom is we don't have to say there's a minimum level, because, sort of like you don't want to be with only 10 people and not participate, right, and so, and also everyone's being so vulnerable, it really makes you want to participate. But I tell people you don't have to turn your camera on and you don't have to speak, and I don't think anyone has done that for more than maybe one meeting. After their first meeting, they're like okay, because I think that's also that's a huge part of the process. Otherwise, to be honest, like you can listen to a podcast, right, if you're not going to engage, it's sort of like you can get stories and you can get information from listening to a podcast. And I think that this should be more of an active group where you're also there as a support, right. So if you can't give support, how are you going to get it? And so, yeah, I think that that participating is sort of part of the deal, but it's really up to the individual.

Christina McKelvy: 40:36

Yeah, I'm excited to see where Everbloom goes and I think it's a wonderful concept and yeah, so, thank you so much for sharing about it. Now, sonia, my podcast is called Hopeology, meaning the study of hope, and that's why, you know, I love interviewing individuals from all backgrounds, all experiences, and the question I ask everybody because it's different for everybody is where do they find their hope? What gives you hope?

Sonia: 41:02

What gives me hope is what used to scare me the most, which is change. And I think that I was so. You know, I was with my ex husband for 18 years and assumed that that would turn into 60, 70 years, accepting the change and then accepting that, like, these feelings will change too, right and so, and then that will change. And so where I am now, you know, a year and a half after, I could not have imagined, I could not have even imagined how good my life could be, and I think that I would still be in that place if I hadn't accepted the change. And so it gives me hope, like on a bad day, that not going to feel like this forever. You may not even feel like this in 10 minutes, like, and so I think that that sort of like, acceptance of the like, impermanence of some things gives me so much hope now, when it used to be literally the scariest thing to me ever.

Christina McKelvy: 42:05

Yeah, open change is interconnected.

Sonia: 42:12

Yeah, yeah, and I think that, yeah, I think that stability. I think you can give yourself stability, right, you can give yourself that consistency. I'm always, wherever I go, I am there. So, yeah, wherever I am, it's home.

Christina McKelvy: 42:29

I like that wherever I am, it's home.

Sonia: 42:34

Yeah, I thought it was wherever that guy was right. And no, turns out not true. Your journey, and it always has been, it just took, you know, 43 years to figure.

Christina McKelvy: 42:49

And that's okay, because I don't think we haven't figured out in our 20s. I'm in my late 30s and I'm just now figuring it out. Yeah, it takes that, it takes that journey, and that's kind of what life is is growing and figuring it out. Yeah, it's so true. So is anything else you want to share with my listeners about Everbloom or yourself or where we can find you?

Sonia: 43:13

Yeah, so we are join ever bloom dot com B L U M E, and we're either join ever bloom or ever bloom on every social media platform.

Christina McKelvy: 43:23

Awesome. I will put that in the show notes and again, thank you so much for being here and I'm looking forward to seeing you ever blooms blooming.

Sonia: 43:35

Thank you so much for seeing this.