Christina McKelvy: 0:13

Welcome to Hopology. Stories of Hope, healing and Resilience. I'm your host, christina McKelvie. Today we're going to be speaking with Kiki Walter. Hello Kiki, how are you?

Kiki Walter: 0:22

I am doing great, thank you.

Christina McKelvy: 0:25

I'm glad you're doing well. It's Monday. How was your weekend?

Kiki Walter: 0:30

I've been. I've had a very busy weekend. I'm in the middle of a move. Oh gosh. Yeah, this weekend it was a lot of going back and forth. I'm not moving very far away, so it was a lot of packing, a lot of moving boxes. It's an exciting time.

Christina McKelvy: 0:47

You know, moving at least for me can be exciting because it's new and I like to organize and go through things, but the whole packing and unpacking is just always so daunting, I don't know if that's the same for you. It is very daunting.

Kiki Walter: 1:04

Especially I am kind of a person who is encased in chaos. I'm just have a chaotic mind, I'm not super organized, so yeah it's a lot, but you know I'm having fun with it.

Christina McKelvy: 1:20

Encasing chaos. That sounds like a movie name. It does.

Kiki Walter: 1:26

I don't really even know if that makes sense, but it's what popped out of my head.

Christina McKelvy: 1:31

No, it does, it does.

Christina McKelvy: 1:33

Well you know, kiki, I asked you to come on the podcast because I've been following a lot of your publications on Medium, black Bear, age of Empathy, the Memorist and I find those publications really amazing, especially Black Bear. You know, I have read a few of those where it's like stories of mental health and sobriety and recovery, and so I just wanted to chat with you a little bit today on how you came to create those different publications and your own story regarding it. Tell me a little bit about those publications and, yeah, how you came to create it.

Kiki Walter: 2:07

Sure, so I have three big publications and then some smaller ones, but I'll just address the big ones right now. Our number one publication is the Memorist, and I started that publication a week after I joined Medium. I was looking for a publication that was for memoirists. That's my genre of choice in writing that in personal essays and I couldn't find anything that I any publications that I wanted to publish on, so I just created my own and the rest followed.

Kiki Walter: 2:47

Age of Empathy, I acquired from another writer, and Black Bear. I started right around the time that I began intensive outpatient treatment for depression. And Black Bear. And also I have experience. I have a background in mental health writing. I was a content director for several years. So I'm I know the genre well and I'm comfortable writing about it. I'm comfortable editing stories about it and I was really looking for personal stories for all three of my publications. I really like that personal touch. So almost you know, even with the essays, you know more. They almost feel like memoirs, because I like when people talk about themselves. People relate to people.

Christina McKelvy: 3:43

Yeah it. It almost helps with the empathetic, empathetic building, facing compassion and empathy when you're hearing someone's story because you're like, oh, I relate.

Kiki Walter: 3:53

I've been there, yes, yes, and I think that's especially true for Black Bear. Many of the comments are in support, and you know saying me too. You know I've been through this as well so that publication in particular, people have a connection there, you know, I think they really connect to the other writers and you know it's become a community of its own, much like the memoirist is a community. So, then, really fun seeing it grow and building it.

Christina McKelvy: 4:29

And you said it started a few months ago or earlier this year.

Kiki Walter: 4:33

I started it, I believe, in December, maybe of last year. It was some time around there just kind of basing off my own journey when when I would have started it, maybe November. Yeah, seems like I start my pubs in November, so we'll go with that.

Christina McKelvy: 4:54

Okay, that's the thing. I tell me a little bit more about that your journey, where you you mentioned you're in IOP yourself when you started Black Bear and how that might have maybe helped your own personal journey through IOP, which for our listeners means intensive outpatient therapy, or how, vice versa, how maybe that informed your writing?

Kiki Walter: 5:19

Well, writing, as you know, is very therapeutic. Yes, so when I started Intensive Outpatient it was I did take a writing therapy class and, you know, just writing really helped me find some balance that I needed. And starting the publication, starting Black Bear, I felt like I was giving back to other people, not just ensuring my story. At that time I felt very free to write about it. I go back and forth with how much I want to say and publish about my own personal journey, but it was just important to me. You know, I was like this makes sense for me at this time to start this and I do feel like writing about my experience in IOP, writing about my experience with depression over the years, was very cathartic and helped me immensely, and I think that it's true for other people who write on Black Bear. I hear that a lot.

Christina McKelvy: 6:35

And in what ways does it help you? You know, I know for myself. I read back some of my old journals who are like whoa.

Kiki Walter: 6:44

Yes, I've done that.

Christina McKelvy: 6:46

Yeah. So I'm curious how maybe even most recently or over the years you know, writing your own memoirs, how that helped your personal mental journey.

Kiki Walter: 6:55

Oh, that's a good question, because I actually started out as an actress and one of the things I always said was I connected to acting because it was a way to get my emotions out. I tend to bottle things up and I ended my acting career when I had my son. I was 31 years old at the time and I've always been a writer, but I started focusing more on writing as a hobby and for me it was just a way of getting those emotions out again. It was the same thing pouring my feelings out on paper experiences through memoir or an essay or you know a piece about mental health. It just gets that angst out. It gets, you know, the ball of you know whatever in your stomach. That's just sitting there. I can pour it out on the paper. Well, you know the proverbial paper. You know I just sit and let my fingers fly on my computer.

Kiki Walter: 8:02

And it's like it all comes out, and sometimes that's good, and sometimes, as I've grown as a writer like, I'll have Christopher Robbin edit my work a lot of the time, because I'm not. I basically write, pour it out and that's it I'm not a big drafter I'm not, you know so sometimes he's like okay, you got to rain it in here, rain it in there. But I just pour it all out. I don't really think too much when I'm writing. I don't really think too much when I'm writing.

Christina McKelvy: 8:36

Sounds very similar to the morning pages.

Kiki Walter: 8:39

Yes, it is. That's in fact, when I stopped acting and got into writing. That was one of the first things I bought was Julia Cameron's book. What's it called? The oh my goodness, I was just. I know it's like on the tip of my tongue.

Christina McKelvy: 8:57

I was just the artist way. I was like I was just reading the artist way.

Kiki Walter: 9:00

Yes, I bought the artists way and I would go on and off with journaling, but I loved the concept of morning papers, whether it was in the morning or not. That is definitely an approach of mine just letting my fingers go, letting my mind go and seeing what I get, and then then I can refine it a little bit. I'm not really a drafter too much, but of course I go through my work and see if I need anything to add, remove words that I've used 15 times in one paragraph that kind of thing.

Kiki Walter: 9:40

I'm a much better editor on other people's work. I'm not so great with myself.

Christina McKelvy: 9:46

I relate to that. I think you're like reading like oh my goodness, how did I write this? Yeah, so it sounds like there's almost like a sense of freedom for yourself. When you were, you know, when you write and you mentioned letting your emotions out similar to acting, and it's almost like this I'm wondering if there's like a sense of safety because, like, at least with acting, I'm not me, I'm acting like someone else, so I can do this.

Kiki Walter: 10:15

Right, definitely a sense of safety and freedom. I had, like my ex-husband was kind of controlling. So I've had like an issue of getting into these controlling relationships in the past and it was something that was my own, you know, it was my writing, was my own, it belonged to me, nobody could control it. But that actually ended up not so true either, because in some of these past relationships.

Kiki Walter: 10:47

I had one long term relationship where he would not like something I wrote, complain about it. I started feeling very censored in my writing and I'm I don't usually censor myself. I don't like that. So that was one reason I stopped writing for a while was that particular relationship and in my current relationship, he's very supportive of my writing, so that's been really great. So sometimes I mean, it really depends on the person and your personality. But yeah, I get stuck in my head a lot. So it is very freeing to write and get those words out, get those thoughts out, yeah, without feeling like I'm being hovered over.

Christina McKelvy: 11:36

Freedom and safety go hand in hand. For sure, you know, with my clients, I will tell them I was signed journaling and I will tell them you know that you can write in your journal and then rip up the papers, read the paper if you need to, or write over it or don't look at it at all, but you're getting it out. There's just something about whether that's through writing or acting or songwriting, Like you said getting those emotions out so they're not bottled up.

Kiki Walter: 12:09

That's funny. I have a friend who gave me some really great advice when I got back into journaling this year, which again was about the time I was in IOP I am very specific with the date. Everything is uniform and he said don't do that. This is your notebook, this is your book, your journal. Doodle in it, do whatever comes to you and what you feel. You don't have to keep it neat, you don't have to keep it super organized. Just get your feelings out in whatever way that might manifest, whether it's writing or drawing or scribbling really hard across the page. Whatever you have to do, it belongs to you. It's your book. You're not doing it for anyone else, you're doing it for yourself. So I really loved that advice. So now I'm using colors and it does look like a mess, but it's mine.

Christina McKelvy: 13:10

Exactly, it's your mess. Yeah, I love that it's my mess.

Kiki Walter: 13:18

Yes, I think that's a good attitude to have my life is my mess.

Christina McKelvy: 13:25

And again it's having that space and freedom, that sense of safety to be able to be a missed in a mess and having those emotions out. And it sounds like your old relationship didn't allow for that. But now you have that freedom and so it definitely makes sense that you came back to writing and started these publications.

Kiki Walter: 13:43

I needed an outlet of some kind. I'm a very creative person. So I need some kind of creative outlet, whether it's music or writing, or I went through a jewelry making phase as long as it's something that I can use.

Christina McKelvy: 14:04

What is it about creativity that you feel plays a really big part in healing and recovery?

Kiki Walter: 14:12

and you know.

Kiki Walter: 14:13

I think again, it's safety. It's the safety and freedom I think in recovery, whether you're you know you've suffered great trauma or your depression, or you're on a sobriety journey, I think that creativity is a great tool because it helps you think about your emotions, it helps you focus your emotions, it just helps with healing because of the safety aspect, I believe. And maybe people are creative and they don't feel they have mental health issues or you know whatever, but I think it can help everybody in some way. Being creative, whatever that might look like, you know you can sit and play a guitar mindlessly or make your jewelry or paint, you know, paint a picture.

Kiki Walter: 15:06

And again, I have a friend who's gotten really into painting and you know it's a great outlet other than writing, besides writing. So it's just that whole freeing your mind and allowing your the inside of your soul to the you know depth of your stomach. Just get it out. And I think getting it out, learning how to get it out, is again very therapeutic. And what you're aiming for to not be afraid anymore of those feelings, having that hope, having that drive to move forward.

Christina McKelvy: 15:47

Yeah, the hope, that drive, not being afraid and I love what you just said allow the inside of your soul, like allowing the depths and just having it, like get it out, like getting out those feelings and emotions. Holding them in just doesn't really help anybody.

Kiki Walter: 16:11

No holding them in, I found caused physical issues for me in the past couple of years until I went to, until I went to IOP, I really was suffering with a lot of physical stuff going on neurological issues and and since IOP I've had a very freeing experience with my body.

Kiki Walter: 16:33

So it's I'm not in the pain that I was anymore and I'm pretty self aware and I've, you know, been able to manage my depression. A lot of things came together at once when I went into IOP but, like I said, I am, I was in the mental health industry, so I knew the importance of getting help if you needed help, if you wanted help, and the timing was perfect for me and I wanted to get help getting my head straight and not just pressure myself into doing it. I wanted that safe place and it was a safe place and I would highly recommend it to anybody who's going through an issue. I mean you don't have to go to in person treatment necessarily. You could. You know the IOP program was all online and I'm I still go to an alumni group and it was just so great, so great. I mean it was the best thing I could have done for myself. Yeah.

Kiki Walter: 17:48

That's when you started Black Bear and that's when I started Black Bear, and because mental health was such a big part of my life at that point and wanting to heal and wanting to get to a better place again that all I was thinking about at that time was mental health. So yes it was, the timing was perfect to create Black Bear.

Christina McKelvy: 18:13

Yeah, and I'm curious about you mentioned it was the perfect time for you to go to IOP. If you don't mind sharing what was the catalyst, or that aha moment where, like I need, I need a little bit more help than I could offer myself.

Kiki Walter: 18:25

Yeah, I really can't talk about that. I'll just say that I was in a place where everything in my life was just overwhelming and I just knew and you know, I knew in my gut that I could probably get through it eventually. But it would be best if I got some help. And the physical issues really drove that as well, because I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if I had some kind of serious thing going on or if it was related to my mental health. So the physical issues that I was suffering from I was having trouble walking, I had severe pain in neuropathy, I had severe pain in my neck and headaches, I mean the whole thing. It just and it really made cognitively I had issues going on.

Kiki Walter: 19:21

So, yeah, it was the right time. And at the same time I decided to take a sobriety journey. It was just, I wanted to be healthy, I just wanted to be healthier. So that's been about a year for me as well and it's been great. You know, even drinking a glass of wine or two a week, you know, is not, was not good for my depression. So I decided to, you know, take my entire life into my hands and do something about it, do something to feel better all the way around.

Christina McKelvy: 20:00

Well, congratulations. You said it's been almost a year, so congratulations for that. And you said you wanted to feel better and that's like the. I think that's like the biggest thing right there, right, wanting to feel better whenever that means for you or others. Yes, yeah, yeah, and it's interesting. You mentioned the physical symptoms and you know we won't go fully into it, but when you hold your emotions in, like I always like tell you know clients, like sometimes we're tense, you know our shoulders are tense and our muscles get tense and it's because I think we're well, we're tense, you know we're holding in those emotions. And so when we are feeling free to be able to express those feelings in a safe way, a lot of my clients will say that they feel relaxed. Yeah, we're not just my clients, people myself, I've done that too, like you. Just there's a sense of freedom, like you mentioned, and feeling relaxed and just at ease.

Kiki Walter: 20:53

Well, when I finished IOP, I started going to and this is going to sound kind of woo woo, but I started seeing a bio energetic practitioner. What's?

Christina McKelvy: 21:04

that.

Kiki Walter: 21:05

So how do you describe it? Well, we did what's called tapping. Yes, so we did tapping. It's a lot of like mind and body focus. So it was kind of like the perfect thing with me, since I was going through those physical issues, really using the mind and the tapping and the you know type of. She also did talk therapy with me, but Okay, so it just was bringing it all together and learning how to let go of that stress and anxiety and depression that I was holding in my body, and it was better than any other therapy I had. I was trying to see it and one on one, a psychiatrist, psychologist at the same time, and he just didn't connect with me in the same way. So this bio energetic practitioner, she's just great, she's wonderful and she actually runs our alumni group as well and I have a great connection with her, which made me feel safe and free to really explore myself deeper. Yeah.

Christina McKelvy: 22:22

Sounds very somatic. Yeah, I'm not like experiencing.

Kiki Walter: 22:25

Yes, Very much so, and you know, I think many of my issues were somatic. So yeah, it's great.

Christina McKelvy: 22:39

Well, that's really that's. I love hearing your journey. Like you're, like I have to, I'm having this physical pain, I have you know these things going on. So I need to go to IOP, I enroll in IOP, I need to start this publication. You know and mention that, like other people are telling you how inspiring and helpful Black Bear and the memoirs and these publications are, you know so it's, you're helping others by helping yourself and, like yes, yes, and it feels great.

Kiki Walter: 23:12

I love, I love that.

Christina McKelvy: 23:15

How has the sense of community been through Black Bear medium? You know just or just in general writing. You know the writing community.

Kiki Walter: 23:23

It's been amazing. I have, you know my circle of friends on medium and Twitter and Instagram and you know so in. It's interesting how each platform we relate to each other differently.

Kiki Walter: 23:37

Like comments on medium are different from you know, when you're getting into a Twitter circle and just in the goofier and then Instagram, you kind of see glimpses of another person's life. So it's just really interesting to me how they all work together and how they're different and and the community we've built, you know, is just you're seeing different little snippets of each person, and we have a Slack channel for our editors and we've also opened it up to you know, inviting certain people if they'd like to be part of it, and that's been really great too. I mean, we're a big family on there and and that's the thing about substack that I, you know, I tried substack as well and I really missed the community feel. Well, I didn't miss it because I was still on medium, but you noticed it didn't have it.

Kiki Walter: 24:33

Yeah, it wasn't the same and the community is supporting one another is just incredible when you find the right people, especially when you're writing essays and more personal work.

Christina McKelvy: 24:46

Yeah, yeah, I was just going to say that community really can help with growth and healing. You know that connection, you know that's just really something that's been a theme that I've been finding and so it sounds like even within medium and the publications you've made and just writing, you've been able to find that sense of community and I'm curious how that's been beneficial for you personally.

Kiki Walter: 25:08

Well, like many writers, I'm very much an introvert and I don't really have a big group of friends where I live, which is okay because I am an introvert. So, like I have my one really close girlfriend and then some friendships through my boyfriend, but for the most part I stay at home. I'm a homebody. So the community through medium has really given me a sense of friendship and people I can talk to in a couple of instances that I can confide in. It's just brought these cool friendships and you know it sounds kind of geeky, you know all my friends are all online, but in a way it's not at all yeah.

Kiki Walter: 26:02

In a way it's true, and you know just supporting each other when you write something, or supporting each other, you know, when you're going through a life change. It's just been great having that group.

Christina McKelvy: 26:15

Mm, hmm, mm, hmm. All your friends are in your pocket.

Kiki Walter: 26:18

Yeah, that's exactly right, and I wasn't. They knew what I was going through when I went to IOP. But I didn't really talk openly about it too much. You know, I wrote about it a couple of times, but I can also be a very private person.

Christina McKelvy: 26:36

Yeah.

Kiki Walter: 26:37

So I'm selective with what I put out there on the internet Pretty wise, even though I don't censor what I'm writing. Yeah, there are certain topics I won't I won't write about. Like, I don't write about my children, and that's just a personal choice I made, actually stemming from, you know, going to custody court a number of times. So, yeah, I just I don't really talk about them. If I do, it's in a very general manner, yeah, and it's and writing about other people is like such a big topic.

Kiki Walter: 27:14

When you're an essayist or a memoirist, you know, what can you, how far can you go, what can you say? It really depends on your relationships and you. You know it is a very personal choice. I often use real names, first names. I don't use full names, mm, hmm, sometimes I will, you know, give them fake names if it's a something I really don't want them to worry about being online.

Kiki Walter: 27:46

But yeah, it's interesting being a writer of personal stories in that way because you're bringing them into your stories as well. But you need to keep it about yourself and I shouldn't be about others, because you're not in their heads. You know, what you've observed and what you've experienced is belong solely to you and it's inside of you so you can write about your experiences. You can write about your experiences, but they're just. They're your experiences, they're how you've perceived actions and situations, and you know there is a way to write and be considerate, and a lot of people get confused by that. It's a question I get asked often. You know, what do I do about writing about my family or whatever?

Kiki Walter: 28:34

Mm hmm, a lot of common sense really.

Christina McKelvy: 28:38

Yeah, especially if you're writing a piece that might not paint that other individual in the best light.

Kiki Walter: 28:48

That's right, and I tend to stray away from those, although I have written about my past marriage in probably not a. I mean, there were issues and I would write about them, but I finished the story usually in a hopeful way, in a hopeful and positive note. So you know, I talked about my experiences with my ex-husband, but I end it by saying how close we are today and what good friends we are. Has he read them? Yeah, I hope not.

Kiki Walter: 29:25

I hope not. I don't know. I don't know if he's read my work or not. I'm really shy about it's so weird. I'm really shy about sharing my work with people in my life.

Christina McKelvy: 29:40

I understand that, though, because the people closest to you can say the most hurtful. Well, can say fun things.

Kiki Walter: 29:48

Yeah, you worry the most about what they think.

Christina McKelvy: 29:50

Exactly there we go.

Kiki Walter: 29:53

I don't really ship things out on my own for people to read, like my mom. I didn't even tell her I was writing again and after about nine months she must have been Googling me or something. After about nine months she shows up as a follower on my medium. I'm like okay, well, the secret's out.

Christina McKelvy: 30:14

Oh, my goodness.

Kiki Walter: 30:16

But that's fine. She's probably my biggest champion. She's always telling me you got to write a book, you got to write a book. But yeah, she is proud of my writing, so that's cool. I mean, it's nice to have someone who's proud.

Christina McKelvy: 30:32

Yeah, having that cheerleader in.

Kiki Walter: 30:35

Yeah, sometimes she'll comment too much. I'll be like okay, stop telling me you love me in the comments. It's freaking me out, but yeah.

Christina McKelvy: 30:46

I love that oh moms. Yep, exactly, yeah, I have been writing a lot of personal essays as well, and that is something that I've been trying to figure out. Is you know the who you mention or who you don't mention, or how you go about that? You know, a lot of the essays I write about are my parents, and both of them have passed. So that's you know. It's a little easier.

Kiki Walter: 31:09

Yes, I've written about my parents as well. There are some topics I'd like to write about.

Kiki Walter: 31:14

My father's passed away now, but I don't want to hurt my mom's feelings, so there are some topics I don't touch, but I have written about her and my stepdad. But I'm very careful I try not to bring any bitter feelings or angst into my writing. When I write about family, I choose to write about the good experiences and you know great activities we did and you know positive things. When it comes to my family, I don't feel like it's necessary to write about how I may have felt as a teenager regarding my family. I was very independent and angsty using that word a lot.

Kiki Walter: 32:03

But yeah, so I'm just careful I write about them, but I'm careful.

Christina McKelvy: 32:08

Yeah, and it's interesting when you, you know I mentioned earlier that when I read my past journals I'm kind of like what in the world? And so when I read my journals as from when I was a teenager, talk about angst and I can't imagine. You know, my perspective have definitely changed. You know, if I was to write based off of that experience, that perspective, how different that would be, considering, how, like, looking back at it, and that is the interesting thing and I've gone back and looked at things that I wrote back in 2008.

Kiki Walter: 32:42

And I cringe, I absolutely cringe. I'm like A. This is so poorly written.

Christina McKelvy: 32:48

Yes, for me yes.

Kiki Walter: 32:50

I was a mess, see, yeah, and I've redone a couple of them, rewritten a couple of them. But you're right, like when you're at a different, different place in your life, your perception can be completely different From when you wrote about it the first time. Yeah, so I've experienced that as well. I was blogging back when mommy, bloggers were a big thing and I considered myself a humor writer at that time a humor writer and a memoirist. But most of my stuff was I don't know. I don't find it funny at all.

Christina McKelvy: 33:30

Looking back at it.

Kiki Walter: 33:32

Looking back at it, I'm like why did I call myself a humor writer? Because this is so not funny? I don't know, I must be old and cranky now.

Christina McKelvy: 33:49

I mean, I'll read stuff that I wrote even a year ago and I'm like, oh my goodness, why did I put that out there? Or I have a blog and I've been editing my blog because I want to compile it into something. And I'll read past blog articles and I'm like Wow.

Kiki Walter: 34:06

I proofread this before I put it on the internet yes, you find all the mistakes, all the mistakes you find it's, and I'm like why didn't I have someone look at this? For me it's a disaster and at the time I thought it was you know, brilliant you know what you're putting out there is like really great. Oh, I'm going to make $1,000 for medium for this.

Christina McKelvy: 34:29

No it doesn't work that way. Yeah, yeah, oh, my goodness, the growth of the growth as an artist and as a writer. You know, just as you get older, I think, with it's true, with age comes wisdom and it really shows in our work. Not my work right now, I'm not saying that, but like, yeah well, I think also, with age comes the ability to free yourself more.

Kiki Walter: 34:55

I think it's really it's more difficult when you're young younger to be completely free with your writing. You're holding things in, you're holding things back. I think there are a lot more worries, and when you get older at least for me, I'm speaking for myself but when you get older, you just don't give a shit anymore. You know you're not here anymore, you know it's like I'm putting this out there. This is how I feel, this is my experience, and I don't care what anybody else thinks.

Kiki Walter: 35:31

Yeah you might care but you know what I mean. You might care about, like you know, your mom yeah my mom and in our, in my podcast it's always every other, every week, I say something that I'm like sorry mom, it's kind of the running joke.

Christina McKelvy: 35:53

Well, I I attended one of your medium for medium day, one of your talks, and you know I thought that was amazing. And you know I do read the different publications, especially black bear and the memoirs, and I just I find it wonderful that there's a sense of community and sense of safety to, you know, for people to come and write and submit their stories and just have a place to share their experiences and hear about other people's experiences, or, excuse me, read about other people's experiences. I just think that's amazing.

Kiki Walter: 36:29

I could not do it without the help of Chris and our team of editors.

Kiki Walter: 36:35

They're amazing and they basically run the show. They're it's just a brilliant team and they're a family and I can't thank them enough for what they've done to help create a community and work with writers the way they do. I think there is a sense. At least they think. What I've been told is that people do love the community feel of our publications and you know, from the beginning I've always wanted it to be writer-centric, in that we help the writers, we respect the writers. You know there's a sense of honor there. Now we're all writers on the platform so I don't want anyone to think I think I'm better than them or anything like that. We're all peers and I want people on my publications to feel like they are being respected for their work.

Christina McKelvy: 37:38

And that's so important and valuable, especially in this field. Well, kiki, I like to ask this question to every guest, because the name of my podcast is Hopology, which means the study of hope, and these stories, hopefully, are glimpses of how one finds hope, how one develops hope, maintains hope, including resilience and healing. And so I like to ask where do you find your hope, or what gives you hope?

Kiki Walter: 38:19

That's a great question. What gives me hope is my inner strength and the knowledge that I can get through anything and have been through a lot, and that there is still positivity in my life. Of course, you know what gives me hope my children give me hope, of course. I'm very close, especially to my 21-year-old son, who's now in Chicago, but he and I are very much alike. I have an 11-year-old daughter and it's wonderful seeing her youth every day and how she's growing. She's just in that stage where they grow so fast.

Kiki Walter: 39:04

And my writing knowing that I can be free in my writing that that's a special place for me and I just think that, no matter what I go through, if I have another bout of depression that's significant I can get through it. I know I can get through it. I've gotten through it before and I can get through it again and feel joy and feel, just feel. Yeah. I mean I don't see any finality in anything. I just see how things can always be better and you can always work to make things better. And you know you might not think that there's a reason to have hope, but that's got to come from inside you. Your hope lives inside you and it's up to you how you let that manifest.

Christina McKelvy: 40:00

That hope is found in you.

Kiki Walter: 40:03

I hope I worded that in a way that makes sense, but your hope is inside you and it doesn't die, Even if you think it does. It's there. It's there. You can always work toward making things better and healing.

Christina McKelvy: 40:24

When you were talking about hope being inside you, I pictured a tree in your heart. You know, a seed and a plant. It's just slowly growing and it's always growing. It's always getting large. Maybe it goes from that little plant to a giant sequoia. Yeah, I love that.

Kiki Walter: 40:49

I always say I look at life like a canvas. You know, and you have your broad strokes, you have your small, detailed lines and you just keep adding to that canvas and some of it may have come from a negative place or a hard you know, something difficult that you went through, and some of those broad strokes are the good things in life that you've experienced and the people and your relationships and connections and what you've connected to. You know, whether it's a sport or writing, or there are all these different pieces that make up who you are, just like the branches on your tree, and there are, you know, all these different paint strokes that make up who you are.

Christina McKelvy: 41:36

We need to find an artist to paint something like that. Yes, yes, I love that. Well, keep you. This was great. I again, I do love the work you're doing and you and Chris Robin and all your editors, you know with the different publications and I look forward to seeing how they grow, and I really appreciate that you decided to come and join me on my podcast. Oh, thank you so much for having me. This was great.

Kiki Walter: 42:04

You're welcome.