Supporting Foster Youth

Christina McKelvy 0:13

Welcome to Hopology stories of hope, healing and resilience. I'm your host, christina McKelvey. Today, we're going to be speaking with two individuals from A Home Within Emily Yang and Candice Simons. Welcome, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Candice Simons 0:27

How are you both? Well, we're doing great and we're really appreciative that you're having us on this podcast. Thank you so much, Christina, for letting us be here to talk about A Home Within.

Christina McKelvy 0:38

Yeah, of course I'm really excited. You know I'm a therapist and as I was perusing your website, I just thought it was such a great program, especially since you know you have volunteers and all the services you offer. So you know, starting off, just tell me a little bit about a home within.

Candice Simons 0:55

Yes, so home within is the only national nonprofit that is matching volunteer therapists with youth in foster care or former foster youth.

Candice Simons 1:03

So we say anybody who has spent at least one day in foster care in the United States is eligible for our program. And we also don't have restrictions on the program that you typically would see in services that are often available for youth transitioning out of foster care, such as income limits or age limits, especially. A lot of services that are available to youth transitioning out of care might end at the age of 21 or 25, maybe at the higher end of the age range, but we have clients anywhere from three to up into their 70s right now and we have a network of over 500 volunteers across the country and, right now, 20 local chapters. So volunteers can be in any state and our staff support our volunteers whether or not they're near one of our local chapters. But living near one of our local chapters would mean that you also get to network with people who live near you, who are like-minded therapists and, you know, engage maybe in some more in-person events and things like that.

Christina McKelvy 2:05

So it sounds like not only do you support individuals that were in foster care are in foster care, but you have a really good supportive network for the volunteers, which are the therapists.

Candice Simons 2:15

Yes, yes. So we have a lot of, I would say, supports for our volunteers, such as opportunities for professional development, and we have a very robust CE program, which we are in our 30th year. That's a really important thing to mention that our organization has been here for 30 years, and we're celebrating the 30th anniversary.

Candice Simons 2:36

Yeah, so we have a lot going on this year for that, and one thing that we're doing soon is launching our new website and launching our redesigned and organized home study library, which is a part of that CE program which is made available to our volunteers so they're able to attend two or three live CE events per month and they're focused on working with our population through a trauma-informed lens. That's one big perk for therapists who want to volunteer with us, and then we also try to make them feel held maybe more than they would in an individual private practice, where sometimes the work can get lonely. So they have our staff, such as Candice, who's our chief program officer, and an LCSW who has a practice. So Candice and I both are LCSWs and available for clinical consultation. And then we have virtual consultation groups and a few of the local chapters have in-person consultation groups as well, so those are available to any of our volunteers.

Candice Simons 3:38

We hear often, actually, our volunteers say that the consultation groups are extremely meaningful to be a part of and that they feel like they are a group working together to hold their clients so that that client has the therapist and then behind that therapist there is a group of therapists looking out for them, and then, in addition, we have our staff that are available when needed. So you know it's, they're still working out of their own private practice with their client, but they also have additional layers of support behind them, and we do believe that that program model, the way that that is set up, is really beneficial to the clients themselves. So yeah, candice, would you add anything to?

Emily Yang 4:22

I think you hit it all. I would just say that you touched on a lot of amazing points. I would just probably add that there's something really amazing about just the 30-year tradition of like community and relationship, because ultimately, what I have found in my career is that that just is hard to cultivate and nourish, with the deadlines of writing notes and learning how to write notes, and it can feel that there's this steep, you know, incline that is required to both become a provider for this population and then provide the services. And in my career I've noticed there's often just a lack of resources related to either training or community. I mean, it's just, it's not billable, so it doesn't happen, I mean, and it makes it hard. It just makes it hard to build in sustainable support for providers, and so often in my career all of the folks that were getting hours were tired at the end of those hours, and so they were really and they just started like the 3000 hours that is required to be often is coupled with working in settings that just don't have the capacity to provide the kind of support that is required to remain hopeful, and so I think a home with ends model really does bolster resilience, in that you're volunteering, you're being held, you're being given the resources you need to stay in it.

Emily Yang 5:58

I mean, we've had volunteers with clients for the average relationship is three and a half years, but we've had volunteers work with their clients for upward of 10 years, which is kind of counterintuitive when you think about this population and some of the stuff that might come up like a decade sounds pretty overwhelming and it, I think, isn't because of the layers of support and nurturance and guidance and community that you receive.

Emily Yang 6:27

That's not corrective focused, it's focused on growing as a therapist and I think that's the feedback that we get. That's the experience that I've had as a volunteer and it feels different, even though I'm in private practice and I don't have to worry about burping and soaping and so being in 30 days to to meet some type of mandate I don't have to worry about that as much some type of a mandate, I don't have to worry about that as much. And still it feels different to volunteer in community and I think that's the difference is that I feel like I'm part of this community and I'm held by this community of hopeful folks who are, who've come together all over the nation just to show up for another person.

Christina McKelvy 7:16

All over the. So I love that you, I have so many questions. I love that you mentioned being held. You know, I think that is so important. You know, as practitioners, especially in private practice, we don't always have that sense of community. And you know, I think we, you know, I personally feel we should be doing some sort of acts of service, whether that's volunteering or providing support. You know, through our professional ethics as a counselor and as a social worker, you know we need to do that, but then there's not a lot of resources or support for us to be able to do that. So it sounds like, you know, a home within has really provided that network, like you said, being held, that sense of community to help therapists not only grow but to be able to volunteer. And you mentioned all over the country.

Candice Simons 8:01

So you're in how many states we have 20 chapters across it's 13 states right now. Right, candice? Yeah, because several of the chapters are in California, where we were founded. Okay, found in California, okay, yeah, so we were founded by Dr Toni Heinemann and her vision was just that she believed that having a lasting relationship with a committed therapist could be beneficial and help a young person in foster care or transitioning out of foster care, you know, make positive changes in their life and, yeah, and since then it's just grown a lot. So I think we have six chapters in California right now and some of our larger chapters are Philadelphia and New York City, boston and Northampton, massachusetts. We have a Chicago chapter, we have a really big chapter in Portland, seattle, and there's a chapter in Houston. Yeah, we just keep growing, growing and we want to see, you know, more chapters founded and more and more therapists find us and find that a home within is the place to be. That's what I always say.

Candice Simons 9:08

If you're in private practice, you know it's a.

Candice Simons 9:09

It's a great place to be for resources, for networking, for experiencing rewarding work and, like you said, you, there's a lot of therapists that have met with me to learn about Home Within, sort of like a pre-volunteer interview to find out more about what we do.

Candice Simons 9:26

And a lot of them will say well, I've always thought about taking on a pro bono client, and then I wasn't sure how to do that and how to get started. Where would I find the person that's the right person to bring into my practice and know for sure that that's a person who needs my private practice therapy for a week for free, you know? So we just we made that avenue available to any therapist who's interested in doing that pro bono work. And then a lot of therapists have also said that they're lonely in private practice. So if you're not in a group practice, or even when I had my private practice open, I had one colleague that was down the hall and we were always passing each other you know ships passing in the night. We never really got to spend time with each other. So it was still lonely and I think you can feel like you're holding a lot by yourself. So a home within also serves as a way to mitigate that for therapists.

Christina McKelvy 10:19

So yeah, that support and, like you mentioned, when you're in private practice here it can be lonely and it's important to have those consultation groups. But sometimes you're like how do I do that? Now you mentioned chapters. How would one go about starting a chapter in their state? Because when I look at your website I noticed there's not one here in Arizona. Yeah, that's true, yeah, we could have a new chapter in Arizona with you.

Home Within Chapter Director Responsibilities

Christina McKelvy 10:45

Christina, not my to-do list, I was kidding, no but in all seriousness, in the Arizona foster system, like that's a whole other. Oh my gosh, I can't even think of the phrase I was going to say, bag of worms. That does not. That's not even a phrase that exists Can of worms. You know, sometimes I can't speak but anyways you know the Arizona foster system is a yeah, it's a whole other can of worms. That can be a whole other podcast discussion. But yeah, how would one go about starting a chapter in our state?

Candice Simons 11:16

Well, we have had for a long time the chapter like, the way that it's designed, is that there's one volunteer who's the chapter director. Their title is clinical director they are. Their main responsibility is to keep their local chapter volunteers engaged with a home within, excited about the work, feeling held all of that. Sometimes that means spreading the word in their community and amongst their colleagues about Home Within. It means if one of the clinicians in their chapter has a need for consultation, they may call that chapter director first before calling staff, or they may just pick up the phone call staff first, but they're available for that, and then within those chapters there's usually local consultation groups and they'll have a couple of in-person events per week and starting it up would just be contacting us. So you know our website is a home withinorg.

Candice Simons 12:07

Our program director, national program director Grace Monger, also a social worker, and she is the one who primarily supports the chapter directors across the country brings them together for a Zoom meeting once every other month to talk about you know how are things going in the chapters and they share ideas on there and we've actually found over time that the chapter directors are much less likely to burn out if they have the support from our staff, which grew a lot in the last four years, so they get a lot more support from us now.

Candice Simons 12:40

Because of that, we just have more capability now to offer them more support. But they seem to burn out less if there's two co-clinical directors. And even one of our chapters Candice, is at Seattle that has four co-clinical directors. They've divided yeah, in Seattle they've divided the responsibilities up amongst the four of them. So maybe one is available for clinical consultation, one works on recruiting local therapists and one plans a couple of events per year. You know they've divided the tasks up that way and it's actually really exciting. In New York City we just brought on our two co-clinical directors. I was filling in for that chapter for the last three years and that chapter grew from five members to 31 members Wow, yeah. So I'm really excited about watching what's going on there and supporting Amy and Brittany as they get that chapter growing, and that's been yeah, I really need to be a part of.

Christina McKelvy 13:38

Yeah, okay, well, thank you. And yeah, so, if any any of our listeners that are independently licensed therapists, I would assume to be a chapter director or to open up a chapter in the state.

Candice Simons 13:50

Yes, yeah, that's a very important thing that I just left out.

Emily Yang 13:58

They've retired and they still are interested and have a large network, because we also partner parallel to this model for 30 years, research has run alongside of it. So we have partnered with the University of San Francisco's foster care research group.

Emily Yang 14:16

Ok, ok, that's good to know our model, and so a lot of our providers are also in a number of settings, either currently or historically, including universities. So sometimes folks are practicing but they might be in a position that gives them access to, you know, psyd students and all types of students who might be eligible. So that's just something. Typically, in order, of course, to be a volunteer provider, you need to have an active license. But for a chapter director, clinical director role, sometimes folks have retired from practicing but do have experience and are engaged in the field, and so if there are any folks out there who are in a university setting who want to launch a chapter, you know, please call us today.

Christina McKelvy 15:12

Yes, please do, okay, Okay. So that's good to know. So you know people that have retired, like you mentioned, you've partnered, so I'm focusing on, like your partnering of their research side with the University of San Francisco. Tell me a little bit more about that. What does that look like?

Emily Yang 15:27

Well, it's exciting. I mean it's amazing and exciting. So for more than a couple decades we've partnered with the University of San Francisco. What their primary focus is is to make sure our service delivery model is responsive to the population we serve. So they do a lot of qualitative studies through looking at some of the reasons that folks come to us in the first place. So they do a screening around anxiety, depression, ptsd. They're looking at their resiliency before they start treatment within a home within therapist, and then they look at it again at about 12 months of treatment with a home within therapist. One really amazing thing about a home within is that the providers are diverse in their modality right. So the service delivery model is the intervention, but folks can do whatever modality they feel comfortable with, whether that be CBT, dbt because again, our clients request a modality. We have a very sophisticated group of folks that we work with and they somewhat LCSWs, because LCSWs no case management I've read that on a referral Somewhat MFT, somewhat DVT, somewhat EMDR. So that's part of the matching process.

Emily Yang 16:47

What our research group team does is they evaluate and measure the level of anxiety, depression and PTSD at the beginning of working with a therapist or prior to and then 12 months later, beginning of working with a therapist, or prior to and then 12 months later. And so what we found through that research is our service delivery model does reduce those symptoms. But again, what's interesting about this is we're not and they're not measuring any modality. So that's something we always like to let our volunteers know so they won't feel like, oh my God, I'm being evaluated, the effectiveness of my modality is being evaluated. That's not actually what they're looking at.

Emily Yang 17:26

And so they evaluate our service delivery model to again ensure that it actually has integrity to our mission, which is to be free of the typical constraints on the healing process. That, in other words, you know there's no reason or need to expedite. Healing based on an assessment is due, a treatment plan is to you need to be stabilized and move on. Nothing wrong with that. But that's typically how mental health services are provided in a financial system that requires progress for reimbursement. So they measure all of that for us, give us feedback and they make sure that our clients' voices, choices and needs are being elevated into our program structure.

Christina McKelvy 18:14

Okay, Okay, yeah, and I like it sounds like you know part of when you were talking about, like the support you know, having this university, having University of San Francisco, provide their research and kind of you know, track the progress of a home within, but not modalities, just that relationship with the therapist and client. They also track their resilience. So what have you seen regarding the resilience factor, you know, with clients that have worked with a home within?

Empowering Long-Term Therapeutic Relationships

Emily Yang 18:45

Well, I would say, from again, from the research, we've seen a lot of those symptoms go down in terms of anxiety and depression and, most importantly, the engagement and resiliency I think is captured. I mean, again, we have therapists who've worked with their clients for, you know, upward of 10 years. That alone because, again, engagement is, as we know, all the other stuff until you have engagement and rapport and a sense of safety and rapport and a sense of safety. So just the idea that having the opportunity to go slower, that's what I always say. The pacing is different here because you know you get to go at a pace that makes sense to really address the engagement and rapport. And you know I was trained with evidence-based models. That said, engagement and rapport was a four week phase of treatment.

Christina McKelvy 19:50

Oh gosh, what do I?

Emily Yang 19:51

have to do. Does anybody have a magic wand? Bring in the sprinkle dust to get this person to trust me in four weeks? And, by the way, why should I end up with it? So, to be able to have a different pace and be able to go at a different speed. And sometimes folks don't show up, and that's okay because there's no pressure, there's no one auditing us, saying it's been five no-shows. What's happening here, by the way? That there is that happens and there is support around that right. But we look at it a little bit differently, we look at it together, and so engagement and rapport can take a longer period of time because it's not determined by fiscal or administrative regulations or constraints. And so I just think the engagement, the idea that we have a model that offers folks voice and choice and they can engage in therapy at a speed that they determine with the therapist, and if they decide, by the way, that they're done in five weeks, that's OK and they can still come back. You know that they get to decide.

Emily Yang 21:01

That's what we hear the most from is how empowering it is. We hear that from our clients and we also hear it from our therapists that there's not this sense of being burnt out. I mean, emily and I always kind of chuckle about that, like how excited folks are to be in a long-term therapeutic relationship with their clients. Quite frankly, it feels a little overwhelming sometimes to me. I'm like 10 years, oh my goodness, 10 years, 15 years, that feels really long. And yet we hear all the time from our therapists that they are so engaged and refueled by the opportunity that they get way more out of it than they feel like they put in it, which to me is just like boggles my mind that that can be a consequence of working in this model that folks feel really, really invigorated.

Emily Yang 21:55

I have to say that as a volunteer I do too. So I volunteer every Tuesday, and evening Evenings are a little. I get a little shaky after 4.30. I'm with you. I'm like, oh, my blood sugar's going down, I don't know. I'm getting a little tired. And after I volunteer I always feel better. I feel it's a boost for my week that I can get through the hump of the week Wednesday with joy. And so that's where I found that it is one of the ways that I can name and identify joy in my calendar.

Christina McKelvy 22:32

I love that and you know, as therapists I feel we can get that sense of joy when we have that rapport with our client. When we feel a sense of joy. You know purpose. You know with our therapy and the fact that Home Within really helps with the pacing that was that word stuck out to me like with the pacing, you know 10 years, 15 years. You know if that's what that client needs and there are therapy modalities where that exists. You know psychodynamic, for an example. You know the pacing, voice and choice so empowers the client but then also empowers the therapist to be like I know that the client would. We just decided together to go this direction for healing and then healing happens, whereas in a lot of evidence-based practices or community mental health centers that are state funded you need to meet these certain metrics, because then that increases the funding but then it becomes more about productivity and buildable hours and some people might lose sight of the real purpose, which is that healing, resilience and hope.

Candice Simons 23:39

Yes, yes, you, you really summed that up really nicely, christina, yeah, so yeah, I think that we do talk a lot. Candice also said voice and choice. We talk a lot about how we want our clients who. One thing we haven't touched on yet is that many people who spent time in foster care they have experienced, of course, at a minimum, separation from their first family and then usually I think the average across the country is three placements, but we have worked with many clients who report that they've had seven different placements, different homes that they lived in, or upwards of 10. And so you know there's a lot of history of attachment, injury, experience of trauma, complex PTSD, and so when within that system they've experienced all of those things and then their opportunities for therapy are limited by what Medicaid is able to pay for or you know other constraints, but they, when they are matched with a therapist, that therapist, often the time therapy can be cut short because maybe the child suddenly moved or maybe it was a program where you get 12 weeks and then it's done.

Candice Simons 24:51

My history of working with youth in foster care in New Jersey my experience was that a lot of what was available to the children in the foster care system here was limited to six months or limited to 12 weeks, depending on how they access those services, those services, and so now when those folks find us at a home within, we want them to feel like from the very beginning with their therapist. They get to decide how long therapy is going to last, what are their goals. They'll work that out with their therapist. How long do they expect treatment to last, how long does the therapist expect treatment to last, depending on their modality. They get to talk about that, you know, together, and so that's giving the client more agency over the experience in therapy, which they probably did not experience like that before.

Candice Simons 25:38

So just when Candice said voice and choice, it reminded me that's another, you know, goal of the program is for the client to be experiencing therapy in a different way. A lot of the people that come to us for therapy probably wouldn't be able to afford a private practice clinician without a home within. Though we don't have an income requirement for the clients that are coming to us, that still is often the case and so for finances and how old you are not to be limiting your access, to being able to be matched with therapists through our program and then just being able to give them more agency over how long is this going to last? What are the goals for treatment and, in another way, that we try to meet our clients' needs? I would love for Candice to tell about our new program initiative that she started last year, which is called Building Practice and Community, which was a response to our client's need for, and request for, culturally concordant therapy. So, candice, if you would share about that, that'd be awesome.

Emily Yang 26:38

Oh, okay, well, we launched. We call it BPIC, which is interesting because people confuse it for like BIPOC, but it's Building Practice and Community and, through the research, a thread that came through over the past couple decades is that our clients have been really really grateful for, and appreciative of, and connected to, our therapists are in our modality. They've also requested to have cultural concordance with their therapist, which is really important, very important, and has been really evident sort of in the national scene of really wanting to lift up various voices. Of course, we have the issue that only 4% of providers in the state of California and nationally identify as African-American and or Latina X or A, and so there's that discrepancy between the request and the number of providers, sort of the supply and demand issue that's out there, and then you take that number and you think about how many are volunteering. So that was a issue that we wanted to be able to address, and so it evolved from that request to this idea of a home within is this amazing place where people stay. It's so good that people come in and they create community and therapists are retained through this model, and so I thought it would be really an opportunity to think about a program that invited people in to this request and invited people into responding to this need, and so we have launched a cohort last year of therapists who identify as Latin, a, x and O or Latin and African American, and there have donated at least five slots in their private practice to serve clients who identify as such.

Emily Yang 28:50

And it's sort of evolved even from then to really recognize that it's a very human need to want to have a sense of belonging.

Emily Yang 28:59

And so part of the BPIC initiative is to recognize that both providers and clients have a shared need, which is to feel part of a community and to feel understood by that community.

Emily Yang 29:13

And so BPIC really is about supporting and retaining and engaging those therapists in this commitment to respond to this need by offering them a community that includes consultation, mentoring and, in some cases, clinical supervision, so that they're able to be retained through their own careers to respond to these needs and experience a sense of belonging which can be extended to the therapeutic relationship. This cohort and this need will create the foundation again to create relationships that are sustained and retained through this model, because through BPIC the members receive this mentoring and this investment in their careers and opportunities to network, and so I'm really excited about it and again, it really gives us an opportunity to sustain a dialogue about what does it take to help humans feel a little bit safer in their environments, to feel valued in it and to inspire their hope and resilience throughout their careers so that they're available to meet the needs of their clients. That's the kind of idea behind BPIC.

Christina McKelvy 30:30

And that's fascinating because you know, you're right, the if they're, if the client has that shared experience with the therapist, so they can, if they feel more heard and seen because of that shared experience, that increases that rapport and it can help with healing and so it's really cool that you have that initiative. So building practice in community, that stands Awesome, Thank you. Oh well, your program sounds amazing and you know, I definitely want to see more, you know. You know chapters you know opened up in different states and and I think it's just, it's incredible, you know, and so thank you so much for sharing about it. And congratulations on the 30 year anniversary. You know, that's that's incredible as well. It's funny when I think of 30 years, I think of like 1970, but that I know, isn't it funny how our brains do that, like 30 years ago.

Hope and Connection at Home

Candice Simons 31:25

Oh yeah, it's 1994.

Christina McKelvy 31:28

It started in 1994. 1994. Yeah, yeah. So anyways, on that sad note, no, just kidding Congratulations. I like to close my podcast with a question that I ask all my participants. You know because again my podcast is named Hopeology, the study of hope. You know what brings you both hope. So, whoever wants to start, what brings you hope?

Candice Simons 32:04

So whoever wants to start, what brings you hope? Lot of joy and excitement about the profession that I'm in and even my own future. If I was to go back to reopening my private practice and go back to doing play therapy with kiddos, that I would be. I would know that I would be doing that alongside a home within. I wouldn't be doing that alone in the future if I was to go back to opening my practice. So the community here gives me hope. When I hear personal stories from clients and volunteers, you know those stories are very inspiring. So yeah, I think yeah, when I'm thinking about a home within, those are the things at a home within that bring me hope.

Christina McKelvy 32:45

Thank you, Emily. What about for you, Candice?

Emily Yang 32:49

Emily? What about for you, candice? I think I love this question because it requires sort of a deep dive into everything. That's good and I think what gives me hope is that a home within has exploded in growth through every metric. Through recruiting therapists, our CE audience has grown. People are showing up, they really are organizing their time around what they value, and so Home Within, specifically, has grown in a time where nationally it's been a little sad, it's been a little, you know, it's been hard to find instances of shared ideas, community and values.

Emily Yang 33:33

And yet a home within has persisted through 30 years and grown in a time of what I would call darkness, where it's harder for folks to rally around their shared values of goodness and kindness and move outside of their tribes. And a home within does that every single day. We have signs that folks are organizing around values and around showing up for one person right Leaving sort of. You know the groups that sometimes organize around things that are problem focused. A home within organizes around one person showing up to be there for another and that and we see it every day, we get applications. Every day we get folks reaching out to us to say, gosh, it made a big difference to be connected to this therapist. So that makes me really, really hopeful that if we create synergy and energy and podcast and noise around, everything that is good we can nourish it and grow it. And a third and a home within has demonstrated that over 30 years continue to nourish one person at a time hope and connection and kindness and compassion. So that brings me hope.

Christina McKelvy 34:47

Connection, kindness, compassion. Well, thank you both. And you, you know where can we find a home within. You know where are you located online. Your website, social media, handles things like that.

Candice Simons 35:01

yeah, we are um, a home withinorg is the website, and then we have an instagram page and a facebook page and they're both just called a home within. I'm pretty sure they don't sayorg at the end of the break yeah, just a home within. You can find us there on Instagram and Facebook, and I think it's going to be exciting. By the time this podcast comes out, our new website is going to be launched and you're going to be able to explore more about our 30 year history, our research. There's going to be a page on the website specifically for clients and clients considering coming to a Home Within, so there will be actually a wealth of information on there. When you start looking for us, and on our social media as well, you'll see a lot about our 30th anniversary and highlighting our volunteers throughout the year.

Christina McKelvy 35:48

Okay, thank you. And again, you're looking for more volunteers and more states to start chapters, and so our goal is 300 volunteers this year for the 30th anniversary.

Join Our Therapist Community With Ease

Candice Simons 36:02

So I mean it's a big goal. It's a lofty goal, but we think it's possible. We have gotten close to bringing on 200 in a year before. So with a lot more efforts, we really think that we're going to make it happen.

Christina McKelvy 36:15

Yes, yes, I will root for you 300. That's awesome. Thank you, christina. Yeah.

Candice Simons 36:25

There is like a button on the website that you click that says join us, and there's a really simple form and that is how therapists can sign up. So you'll see us advertising info sessions and things like that, and so there's always opportunities to talk to us more before you register. But registering is just a 10 minute process with that form on our website and, yeah, it's really easy to connect with us and join.

Christina McKelvy 36:48

So yes, thank you. Yes, I hope you know any therapist that's listening to this podcast. Please, you know, sign up, join, volunteer, because it's needed. Well, anything else that our listeners should know about a home within, or you know any tidbits before we conclude today?

Candice Simons 37:09

Was there anything that we left out?

Emily Yang 37:11

Candice? I don't think so. We just hope to meet you and there's so many opportunities to join and to participate and have joy. And again, I'm a big, big advocate for self-care in this field, and so this is one of the ways you can help take care of yourself is by giving yourself a community of like-minded people and being able to look at your calendar and say every week you can point to it, to joy, which is what I like to do, is center my time around what brings me joy and hope. So join Christina in Arizona for our 30th anniversary.

Emily Yang 37:53

We're rooting for it and we hope to meet you soon.

Christina McKelvy 37:57

Yes, thank you. Well, thank you again for being on here and to all my listeners, I hope you find hope throughout the day.